Re: Featured NU

Prostiboots · by Prostiboots on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:22 am

Sasami wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:like Gastrodon, and Quagsire, both of whom are NU legal, and threats in this tier. They could set up rocks, rain dance, or just kill you when you try to Roar, removing a piece of your defensive core.

Gastrodon and Quagsire don't get Stealth Rock, you're thinking of Swampert. I also haven't seen a Rain Dance team in ages--they aren't exactly common in NU. They're stopped too easily it would seem and plus we lost Gorebyss.

If his set does indeed survive weaker EQs, they probably won't be able to "kill" Luxray.

I don't know, two Pokemon walling out his set isn't THAT awful IMO. If he runs Toxic (which I see is an option) then he's going to be crippling them, anyways. All (I can say "all" 'cause I have the stats) Quagsire and Gastrodon used in NU are bulky and not offensively-based. They won't enjoy being poisoned, nor will they be able to "kill" a bulky Luxray.

I do agree that the set needs more work (which I assume Shine plans to do) and some damage calcs will be useful. But you're making out Gastrodon and Quagsire to be much bigger threats than they are. There's a reason that Pokemon is played with teams rather than a single Pokemon--I'm sure he'd have other Pokemon to take care of the water/grounds. I can think of many Pokemon who actually enjoy setting up on them, actually. Shedinja comes to mind provided that the water/ground isn't running Toxic. If it is, Meganium will probably fare better. Vileplume, Mantine, and Grumpig would also do nicely.

I was giving a quick example off of the top of my head, basically any poison type with a defence stat stops it, Arbok being at the top of that list for being able to disrupt the rest of the team, as well.

On a side note, I've come to consider the usage stats irrelevant, and I will until a lot more people are playing.

It doesn't... need work... I think I'd rather see calcs on presented sets, and why they're a good option over other,establish sets (assuming they're around,) that would be refreshing.

Sasami · by Sasami on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:00 pm

Arbok? Who uses that? It's not a very good Pokemon IMO.

Anyways, ANY set will have counters. Even Pinsir has counters but he certainly isn't a bad Pokemon (if anything, he's the best Pokemon!).

"On a side note, I've come to consider the usage stats irrelevant, and I will until a lot more people are playing."

Gee, I never thought of it that way. I thought hundreds of people were playing. In fact, I thought you were actually involved in the project you so desperately wanted to me to move from Shuten because of your own personal issues./sarcasm

Listen, I don't care that you're criticizing Shine's set. What annoys me is the fact that you're making statements and not backing them up with any experience. You don't play NU and I'm pretty sure you haven't in months. Shine, myself, and occasionally Ryu are the only ones playing. And the last time I asked you about NU, you gave me some weird excuse about speed tiers.

By the way, the usage stats weren't "irrelevant" until people like you stopped playing. The usage stats used to be made up of data from 60-80 team uses a month (no, I'm not making that up). Now there are less than 10 teams used a month, not enough for me to even release stats of any kind. I wouldn't post "irrelevant" stats as they'd be a waste of time for me to calculate...

/endrant

Prostiboots · by Prostiboots on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:10 pm

Did I need to specify that I meant until a few hundred unique teams were being made a month, because I thought it was obvious.

If you're going to accuse "NU experience," that goes straight down the tubes with the usage stats, because one person can, and will shake things up.

;D

Sasami · by Sasami on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:00 pm

Playing NU DOES make people like Shine and I more experienced. Guess who tends to win most matches when other people play? Shine and I. You know why? Because we've used the most Pokemon, tried the most strategies, and gotten a feel for the metagame. You haven't.

It would be like me giving advice on building an UU team for the current UU tier. Sure, I've read up on it, know the tier list, and have played a few matches--but I'm not experienced enough to really understand the inner workings and know how well a strategy will do.

One person can "shake things up" in ANY tier so that argument was largely irrelevant. ObiStall, Yache Chomp, Tickle Wobb, etc. should prove that.

I love how you don't have time to play but have time to argue, btw. I don't care if you play NU but don't give advice on a tier you're inexperienced with and expect people to agree with you.

If you really feel you understand a metagame without playing it, verse me in Little Cup and see how far you get.

(Off topic: Oh, and I'm finally playing FFIV again :p)

Shine · by Shine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:04 am

All right, so, to get back on the real topic at hand, here's a Rapidash anti-lead that works! Might be too nichey, though.

Purugly @Power Herb
-Fake Out
-Dig
-Taunt/Sucker Punch
-U-Turn
Thick Fat, Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP

Okay, this actually works. I had to find something faster than Rapidash that could pack a super effective attack. After realizing that there was nothing faster that could learn EQ, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Surf, etc without having to take a turn to Rain Dance or something like that (not considering Scarf), I turned to, well... Dig. I started checking the power of faster Pokemon with Dig, and nothing could OHKO. So I checked Sneasel, Persian and Purugly with Fake Out + Dig power, and Purugly's the only one that can 2HKO between Fake Out and Dig 100% of the time. As a bonus, Thick Fat should reduce Flare Blitz power enough to keep Purugly alive. Taunt can shut down other leads, and U-Turn saves it from slower threats, usually. Sucker Punch IS an option, because it's a good priority attack, but I think Taunt is a better choice overall.

Sasami · by Sasami on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:47 pm

Interesting set. My only worry would be that it doesn't seem incredibly useful later in the match besides using Fake Out to pick off Pokemon with not much help left.

I'm not sure why Thick Fat matters against Rapidash since it shouldn't get a chance to attack but that is indeed a neat bonus. Thick Fat will also help against lead Snover (although I can't see anyone wanting to run that with Rapidash around, rofl).

Does Purugly need all of that speed? You obviously want enough to outspeed Rapidash but I'm wondering if some of those speed EVs would be better placed in HP or something.