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NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:44 pm

Everyone knows that certain NFEs are definitely viable. There are a handful of them that are usually considered good enough to use in their un-evolved state and they are as follows: Pikachu, Clamperl, Haunter, Kadabra, Rhydon, Dusclops, Electabuzz, Magmar, Magneton, Gligar, and Sneasel.

Obviously, I'm not including ones banned from NU such as Chansey.

But what about those that haven't been brought up until now because of the previous ban on NFEs?

This thread is for discussions of competitively viable NFEs and their possible roles and functions in the metagame. To get the ball rolling, I'm going to bring up Shellgon. With it's great typing and massive (for NU) attack and defense stats, I believe it could function as a bulky attacker. If you want more speed or the ability to effectively use and take special attacks, though, go for Dragonair. (Gabite is of course another option, if you want pure power over survivability)
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Ninja on Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:40 am

Don't forget Machoke! I believe that he can find his own little niche in NU...

First off, No Guard is a very handy ability ^^

Especially for Special Machamp >_>

Errr, wut? *moving on*

A Guts sweeper is a nice option, too: something along the lines of @Flame Orb, Cross Chop(Brick Break, Close Combat)/EQ/Stone Edge/Protect.

He's got Bullet Punch for priority, which is always nifty, and I'm pretty sure that I could SOMEHOW get a functioning gimmick set up with him =P

Obvious counters are obvious. He's kinda slow, even for NU standards. Kadabra will be a threat, Chimecho can easily outrun it, even with a speed decreasing nature (its minimum is 206, Machoke's maximum is 207 >_<).

But yeah, I definitely plan on testing out Machoke a bit.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:03 pm

Ninja wrote:Don't forget Machoke! I believe that he can find his own little niche in NU...

First off, No Guard is a very handy ability ^^

Especially for Special Machamp >_>

Errr, wut? *moving on*

A Guts sweeper is a nice option, too: something along the lines of @Flame Orb, Cross Chop(Brick Break, Close Combat)/EQ/Stone Edge/Protect.

He's got Bullet Punch for priority, which is always nifty, and I'm pretty sure that I could SOMEHOW get a functioning gimmick set up with him =P

Obvious counters are obvious. He's kinda slow, even for NU standards. Kadabra will be a threat, Chimecho can easily outrun it, even with a speed decreasing nature (its minimum is 206, Machoke's maximum is 207 >_<).

But yeah, I definitely plan on testing out Machoke a bit.

Yeah, Machoke definitely has potential. His extremely low speed is a letdown (even scarf can't fix it completely, haha), but his raw power and movepool should make up for it--especially that priority!

Even if you don't run Flame Orb, having Guts can make him a handy status absorber (screw you, Butterfree!), as he'll enjoy switching in on Thunder Wave, Will O' Wisp, Toxic, etc. Then you can give him leftovers for increased survivability.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Lord Ryu on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:18 pm

I have a few plans to abuse Voltorb and Diglett's high speed; Scarfed Diglett could be a good switch-in for Raichu and the like.

Sealeo is basically a mini-Walrein, and until we get him back he'll be a nice staller, especially in hail. Speaking of which, we got Snover, let the hail begin!

Haunter and Golbat also seem abusable.

EDIT: Golbat's Speed is 90, quite high for NU standards. In fact, its lowest stat is Sp. Atk at 65, making him a really nice Pokemon all in all. Also, he has a huge movepool, with things like Heat Wave, Nasty Plot (!), and the oh-so-abusable Air Slash. Also, Hypnosis.

Haunter gets Hypnosis as well, with a base Speed of 95. Immunities to both Ground and Normal make him a great switch-in for lolslaking, and a Special Attack of 115 give him what I'm pretty sure is one of the highest Sp. Atks in NU. Also, Explosion.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Ninja on Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:26 am

I'm actually really elated over the allowance of NFE's into the tier, because now we have so much more variety. I mean, just look at the tier list; it's pretty huge now. =P

Sure, some NFE's are probably just taking up space because they have evolutions in the tier already (Abra, Bulbasaur, Zubat, Charmander, Squirtle and Dratini, to name but a few), but I'm honestly greatly anxious to test out many of the awesome NFE's we have.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:04 pm

Ninja wrote:I'm actually really elated over the allowance of NFE's into the tier, because now we have so much more variety. I mean, just look at the tier list; it's pretty huge now. =P

Sure, some NFE's are probably just taking up space because they have evolutions in the tier already (Abra, Bulbasaur, Zubat, Charmander, Squirtle and Dratini, to name but a few), but I'm honestly greatly anxious to test out many of the awesome NFE's we have.

I totally know what you mean. This is the first time that NFEs have been tiered as individuals--it's going to be exciting trying all of them out. So many probably have hidden potential that has never been used.

It just opens up so many new options and strategies.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Shine on Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:20 pm

I worry that some of these may become OU lite.

For instance, the only thing Kadabra has that Alakazam doesn't is crappier stats.

Besides that, I'm sure there are some interesting things, like Compound Eyes Yanma and such.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:26 pm

Shine wrote:I worry that some of these may become OU lite.

For instance, the only thing Kadabra has that Alakazam doesn't is crappier stats.

Besides that, I'm sure there are some interesting things, like Compound Eyes Yanma and such.

I don't know about you, but I RARELY see Alakazam in OU...so I'm not sure how that's "OU Lite".

But if it bothers you, pretend that they're separate Pokemon, not pre-evos. After all, Sandslash is an inferior version of Donphan (seriously, lol), but that isn't considered "OU Lite".

Yeah, some should prove very interesting, like Yanma. Dragonair is probably the one I'm most excited about--it plays a whole different role than Dragonite. Shellgon, too, actually! They're both rather defensive, but still hold a good amount of offensive power (especially Shellgon, check out his base attack).
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:49 pm

I could see Munchlax doing okay in NU.

135 base HP is still huge (more than Larpas, for instance.)

85 Attack is respectable here, and it has Curse to boost that (and its lacking defence)

Also, Thick Fat.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:53 pm

Prostiboots wrote:I could see Munchlax doing okay in NU.

135 base HP is still huge (more than Larpas, for instance.)

85 Attack is respectable here, and it has Curse to boost that (and its lacking defence)

Also, Thick Fat.

Yeah, Ryu and I were talking about Munchlax yesterday. I think he could work if used correctly--doesn't seem like the easiest Pokemon to fit on a team.

I'm not sure yet if a Curse set would be effective, but that'd be something to try.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Sasami wrote:

Yeah, Ryu and I were talking about Munchlax yesterday. I think he could work if used correctly--doesn't seem like the easiest Pokemon to fit on a team.

I'm not sure yet if a Curse set would be effective, but that'd be something to try.
Surely it would.

Bad thing is Lickylicky outclasses him at that for now, with higher defences and a better movepool.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:06 pm

Prostiboots wrote:
Sasami wrote:

Yeah, Ryu and I were talking about Munchlax yesterday. I think he could work if used correctly--doesn't seem like the easiest Pokemon to fit on a team.

I'm not sure yet if a Curse set would be effective, but that'd be something to try.
Surely it would.

Bad thing is Lickylicky outclasses him at that for now, with higher defences and a better movepool.

Then for now perhaps a more support-ish set is better? Or even a Bander, as he's a great switch in and counter to Kadabra and Haunter (watch out for Focus Blast) because he has Pursuit. Hmm.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:07 pm

Sasami wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:
Sasami wrote:

Yeah, Ryu and I were talking about Munchlax yesterday. I think he could work if used correctly--doesn't seem like the easiest Pokemon to fit on a team.

I'm not sure yet if a Curse set would be effective, but that'd be something to try.
Surely it would.

Bad thing is Lickylicky outclasses him at that for now, with higher defences and a better movepool.

Then for now perhaps a more support-ish set is better? Or even a Bander, as he's a great switch in and counter to Kadabra and Haunter (watch out for Focus Blast) because he has Pursuit. Hmm.
A bander might work, they have the same attack. (Lickylicky gets Explosion, though. D: )

Lickylicky can keep the boosting sets, Munchlax can try to band.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:10 pm

Lickilicky gets Explosion, but Pursuit is where Munchlax shines Wink.

Especially since I predict a lot of Haunter usage (not sure about Kadabra at this point but I know he'll see some use).
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:11 pm

Just for some reference.

A max attack positive Seadra can't OHKO Pikachu with a +1 Waterfall.

DD Seadra =/= great
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Shine on Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:49 pm

Prostiboots wrote:Just for some reference.

A max attack positive Seadra can't OHKO Pikachu with a +1 Waterfall.

DD Seadra =/= great
Actually, you had a Reflect up when that happened. I ran calcs, and without Reflect, it would've KO'd by about 180%.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:58 pm

Shine wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:Just for some reference.

A max attack positive Seadra can't OHKO Pikachu with a +1 Waterfall.

DD Seadra =/= great
Actually, you had a Reflect up when that happened. I ran calcs, and without Reflect, it would've KO'd by about 180%.
Even then, still not great.

Adamant Dragonair could OHKO Pika with Dragon Claw over 50% of the time with reflect (which it sadly doesn't get, so Dragon Rush is the best STAB around for it. Definite OHKO, I guess.)

Adamant Shelgon can do it 100% of the time, but fails to outrun after a DD without using a Jolly nature, which leaves its attack less than Adamant Dragonair.

I s'pose all of the NFE dragon dancers have their advantages, but Seadra's attack stat lacks, so it has better things to do than DD (Specs, anyone.)
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:54 pm

I have to agree with...er, I'm not calling you Prostiboots, so come up with a good nickname or I'll use your real name XD;.

But anyways, yeah, I agree that Seadra has better things to do. A Specs set would be more effective (but even then, on MOST teams there will be better options...I'm not saying all, just most).

Believe me, I'm a huge fan of that whole evolution chain (as you guys know, haha)--but I don't think DD Seadra is worth a slot over something like Dragonair.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:31 pm

Call me Prosti, or Boots.

Other forums have come to that consensus.

xD

*thinks of random NFE to mention*

Oh, I haven't seen Magmar perform all that well, I'm thinking about trying a scarfed mixer set, because we've all seen how random monotypes get those off.

Razz
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:07 am

You change your usernames way too much >_<;. *has used the same one since sixth grade* XD

Considering how well mixed Magby performs in Little Cup, I wouldn't be surprised if mixed Magmar found it's place in NU.

Also, Gabite doesn't get Swords Dance, wtf. I had this whole annoying team planned with YacheGabite XD.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:16 am

Sasami wrote:You change your usernames way too much >_<;. *has used the same one since sixth grade* XD

Considering how well mixed Magby performs in Little Cup, I wouldn't be surprised if mixed Magmar found it's place in NU.

Also, Gabite doesn't get Swords Dance, wtf. I had this whole annoying team planned with YacheGabite XD.
Yay!

XD

Also, I change usernames because I change myself/words like Prostiboots come into my knowledge.

I mean COME ON. How random is it? XD

Uhhh... ummmm... I'm not sure how Electabuzz is going to do, Magmar has better Attacking stats than it with a bit of a better movepool

D:
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:42 am

Electabuzz has a great NU speed, though, if I remember correctly.

He also gets physical BoltBeam with STAB on electric which is nice, I suppose.

But yeah, I'd pretty much only consider him for his extremely high speed.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:40 pm

Sasami wrote:Electabuzz has a great NU speed, though, if I remember correctly.

He also gets physical BoltBeam with STAB on electric which is nice, I suppose.

But yeah, I'd pretty much only consider him for his extremely high speed.
Yeah, 105 is good, I guess.

Pity he doesn't get Motor Drive, so he can be Paralysed.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Sasami on Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:08 pm

You guess 105 is good? It is, as that outspeeds all the base 100's we now have. The only Pokemon outspeeding Electabuzz are Purugly and Persian, I think. Unless there's a random guy I'm forgetting, haha.
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Re: NFEs of Interest

Post by Prostiboots on Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:25 pm

Sasami wrote:You guess 105 is good? It is, as that outspeeds all the base 100's we now have. The only Pokemon outspeeding Electabuzz are Purugly and Persian, I think. Unless there's a random guy I'm forgetting, haha.
Sneasel, actually.

Razz

Speed ties with Kadabra, Manetric, and Lopunny, and considering the only way it should be used is mixing (otherwise it's outclassed,) it won't be at max.
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