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Featured NU

Post by Shine on Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:08 pm

In case you don't want to post entire teams in the RMT, but happen to have good individual sets, go ahead and throw them up here.

This is similar to the NU Analysis Workshop, except that this thread is open to more gimmicky sets should you wish to put them out there for people to play with, whereas the NU Analysis page is more for sets proven to work well and consistently through testing.

I'll start us off.


Monferno @Choice Scarf
-Close Combat
-Flare Blitz
-U-Turn
-Overheat
Blaze, Naive/Naughty
252 Atk, 88 Sp.Atk, 168 Spd (252/80/176)

Still pretty experimental, but might be worth looking into. In my first RMT for the MarchApril09 rotation, I have a Combusken anti-lead to handle the likes of Purugly, Persian, Mawile, and Butterfree with relative ease. Here, I'm bringing a SIMILAR Pokemon, with MUCH less bulk, but a little more versatility. The EVs allow it to outrun Scarfed Butterfree leads, allowing you to easily OHKO with Flare Blitz. Overheat is more for Mawile, while Close Combat, obviously, is for Purugly and Persian. Sadly, this set can't handle Focus Sash Butterfree as well, and needs to be Scarfed in order to outrun Persian and Purugly, which otherwise would easily take it down between Fake Out and Return/Fury Swipes before it could do a single thing.

Now, what sets this apart from the Combusken set I put up in the RMT (see the link above), is that it's a little more useful late-game as a Scarfed Sweeper- good for clean up. Sadly, this doesn't OHKO Lickilicky, cause it's too bulky. You'll only do 95% at max, and 87% on average, with only a 46% chance to OHKO after Rocks, meaning, it'll have to have switched into Rocks at least twice, or it has to have lost a bit of HP prior to attacking. While you COULD supplement this by running a Naughty nature over a Naive one and running the alternative EV set (20% to OHKO, 100% with Rocks), you can't outrun Scarfed Butterfree without the extra Spd, so it's a matter of preference. Would you rather outrun Scarfed Butterfree for the chance to OHKO before it can even do anything, or are you more worried it might be packing a Focus Sash, and just cripple you? If you're more worried about the latter, you'll want to either outrun it and U-Turn out to something with Limber or Insomnia, or just don't bother dealing with it, run the Naughty nature for the extra power, and simply switch out like a commoner. Your call.

I'll note that Magmar can pull off something similar, but without the STAB'd Close Combat, more Spd, and a stronger Overheat/Flare Blitz, until Blaze pops. If you need the Close Combat more than the strong Overheat/Flare Blitz, this is a better choice.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Sun May 31, 2009 11:48 pm

I have no idea why this thread died but I'm reviving it in honor of a new favorite NU of mine.


RestDance
Dragonair@Leftovers
Impish, Shed Skin
252 HP/140 Defense/118 Sp.Defense
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Aqua Tail
-Outrage

Shed Skin is an amazing ability that sees very little use because of the Pokemon who get it. However, in NU, it really gets to shine on Dragonair, a favorite of many people. Between the overall bulk of this Dragonair and the many resistances that its typing grants it, switching in should be fairly easy (but should be done late game). Some of the common attacks that this Dragonair can switch in on are random Surfs, Thunderbolts, Energy Balls, Fire Blasts, Waterfalls, most priority moves (Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, Aqua Jet...basically anything besides STAB Ice Shard), etc. Once you're in, start Dragon Dancing and Rest when you get low on health. Because of Shed Skin and the two turns of sleep, you have a REALLY high chance of waking up immediately or at least in one turn. Shed Skin also gets rid of random other status like poison or paralysis. Sleep Talk can also be used (only bother on the first turn of rest or after being put to sleep by something else) and allows you to set up in your sleep. And if Sleep Talk chooses Outrage, you won't be locked in or confused. Shed Skin means that Sleep Talk isn't totally necessary (just useful in certain situations and allows Dragonair to perform even better as a status absorber)--therefore, Aqua Tail is a good alternative that gives you perfect coverage in NU.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:07 pm

Sasami wrote:I have no idea why this thread died but I'm reviving it in honor of a new favorite NU of mine.


RestDance
Dragonair@Leftovers
Impish, Shed Skin
252 HP/140 Defense/118 Sp.Defense
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk/Aqua Tail
-Outrage

I tried a set very similar to this before, and it didn't do very well... Wonder why it does so much better in NU?
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:30 pm

It's actually very simple. In NU, there's a real lack of viable steel types and by end game there usually aren't any around (at least in my experience). Take a look at usage stats and you'll see what I mean.

Plus, most NU players don't really plan for dragons/dragon-type attacks because they're so rare.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:59 pm

This is a Luxray that I use on my new Sunny Day team for NU which is in the works- I figured I'd grant a little preview, because the team as a whole seems to be lookin' pretty unique so far, and entertaining.


Luxray @Leftovers
-Light Screen/Roar
-Ice Fang
-Thunder Fang/Spark
-Thunderwave/Toxic
Intimidate, Impish
204 HP, 88 Atk, 208 Def, 8 Spd

The idea here is that Intimidate supplements Luxray's nice bulky HP and Def, letting it take much more punishment than would otherwise be possible. It doesn't need to invest too much in Atk to deal decent damage, because it already has a big Atk stat- unfortunately, it doesn't pack any strong physical STAB (unless you're using Shuten's event Shinx with Volt Tackle, which wouldn't make sense with this set, anyway), so it still doesn't deal as much as you'd like it to. Anyway, Light Screen can make up for Luxray's Sp.Def and provide the team with some support, while Roar can PHaze away threats and such. Ice Fang and Thunder Fang grant a physical BoltBeam variation, although while Thunder Fang has a 20% chance to Flinch and/or Paralyze, Spark has five more accuracy, and a 10% higher chance to cause paralysis, in case you don't want to invest in Thunderwave, which I would recommend you do. T-Wave is there for paralysis support, clearly, while Toxic can wear down foes slowly, and cripple slower walls.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:25 am

I remember seeing a similar set used on Shoddy once and it was pretty neat. I think it could work. Have you run any damage calcs to see what exactly it can take? For example, I'm interested to see if it can take any Earthquakes.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:43 am

Sasami wrote:I remember seeing a similar set used on Shoddy once and it was pretty neat. I think it could work. Have you run any damage calcs to see what exactly it can take? For example, I'm interested to see if it can take any Earthquakes.
I don't have a calc to prove it, but it took an EQ from a CB'd Torterra with about 38% HP left after Leftovers. I got to 2HKO it with Ice Fang.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:05 pm

That just looks like an inferior version of...

Defensive
Leftovers Intimidate Bold

~ Thunderbolt
~ Toxic
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Crunch / Light Screen
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA

Intimidate is a great ability, and even though Luxray has rather average defensive capabilities, and few useful resistances, it can take quite a few hits with this set. When factoring in Intimidate, this Luxray is capable of surviving Swords Dance boosted hits from Scyther's X-Scissor and Kabutops' Stone Edge, then OHKOing them both with Thunderbolt. It also takes on Dragon Dance Lapras well, and switching into Brave Bird is no problem, even from Dodrio.

Toxic fits well with the more defensive nature of the set, and greatly hinders walls like Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Lanturn. Hidden Power Grass helps to bring down Water/Ground-types and Golem. In the last slot, you can use Crunch to hit Grumpig and Hypno, who take significant damage from Crunch even with an Attack lowering nature, most likely a 3HKO given current EV trends. If you are content to simply hit them both Toxic, Light Screen is an option to defend against special attacks for a few turns.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:46 pm

Smogon copypasta doesn't hold up well here, just so you know... As far as I know, Scyther, Lanturn, Kabutops, and Lapras don't even exist in NU, and the other three Pokemon can be handled just as well by just about any other Pokemon with a Grass move. Please try to contribute something more useful, rather than just hitting copy and paste.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:32 am

I was implying that your defensive set is a rip off (and a worse one at that,) of a smogon copypasta, actually.

Remember to fully read what I say, because it says "Looks like a worse version of.."

Then I put that down.

Next time maybe you should try to put something more useful through.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:49 am

Prostiboots wrote:I was implying that your defensive set is a rip off (and a worse one at that,) of a smogon copypasta, actually.

Remember to fully read what I say, because it says "Looks like a worse version of.."

Then I put that down.

Next time maybe you should try to put something more useful through.
Except that you completely disregarded the point of that post- Smogon copypasta isn't going to work as well in NU as it would in Smogon tiers because the same threats aren't around.

Besides, considering that you don't even battle anymore, I've clearly contributed far more than you even care to.

There's a reason I'm a mod- I'm actually active.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:31 pm

Shine wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:I was implying that your defensive set is a rip off (and a worse one at that,) of a smogon copypasta, actually.

Remember to fully read what I say, because it says "Looks like a worse version of.."

Then I put that down.

Next time maybe you should try to put something more useful through.
Except that you completely disregarded the point of that post- Smogon copypasta isn't going to work as well in NU as it would in Smogon tiers because the same threats aren't around.

Besides, considering that you don't even battle anymore, I've clearly contributed far more than you even care to.

There's a reason I'm a mod- I'm actually active.
I didn't know we were using ad hominem to try to remove the validity of points.

Anyway, last time I check Torterra was still UU, so talking about that in NU is irrelevant, and there nothing that your set could do in NU that the Smogon one couldn't, and there are things in NU that fully stop your set that would be defeated by Smogon's, like Gastrodon, and Quagsire, both of whom are NU legal, and threats in this tier. They could set up rocks, rain dance, or just kill you when you try to Roar, removing a piece of your defensive core.

Your set looks to be tailored to UU over NU, and even then special attacks would do it better.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:29 pm

Prostiboots wrote:
Shine wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:I was implying that your defensive set is a rip off (and a worse one at that,) of a smogon copypasta, actually.

Remember to fully read what I say, because it says "Looks like a worse version of.."

Then I put that down.

Next time maybe you should try to put something more useful through.
Except that you completely disregarded the point of that post- Smogon copypasta isn't going to work as well in NU as it would in Smogon tiers because the same threats aren't around.

Besides, considering that you don't even battle anymore, I've clearly contributed far more than you even care to.

There's a reason I'm a mod- I'm actually active.
I didn't know we were using ad hominem to try to remove the validity of points.

Anyway, last time I check Torterra was still UU, so talking about that in NU is irrelevant, and there nothing that your set could do in NU that the Smogon one couldn't, and there are things in NU that fully stop your set that would be defeated by Smogon's, like Gastrodon, and Quagsire, both of whom are NU legal, and threats in this tier. They could set up rocks, rain dance, or just kill you when you try to Roar, removing a piece of your defensive core.

Your set looks to be tailored to UU over NU, and even then special attacks would do it better.
Keep in mind, mister inactive person who doesn't really even know what's going on in NU anyway, that this is still a project in the works. Every set is fair game, and every set is worth trying.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:26 pm

Damage calcs can makes things not worth trying at all, have foresight.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:23 pm

Prostiboots wrote:like Gastrodon, and Quagsire, both of whom are NU legal, and threats in this tier. They could set up rocks, rain dance, or just kill you when you try to Roar, removing a piece of your defensive core.

Gastrodon and Quagsire don't get Stealth Rock, you're thinking of Swampert. I also haven't seen a Rain Dance team in ages--they aren't exactly common in NU. They're stopped too easily it would seem and plus we lost Gorebyss.

If his set does indeed survive weaker EQs, they probably won't be able to "kill" Luxray.

I don't know, two Pokemon walling out his set isn't THAT awful IMO. If he runs Toxic (which I see is an option) then he's going to be crippling them, anyways. All (I can say "all" 'cause I have the stats) Quagsire and Gastrodon used in NU are bulky and not offensively-based. They won't enjoy being poisoned, nor will they be able to "kill" a bulky Luxray.

I do agree that the set needs more work (which I assume Shine plans to do) and some damage calcs will be useful. But you're making out Gastrodon and Quagsire to be much bigger threats than they are. There's a reason that Pokemon is played with teams rather than a single Pokemon--I'm sure he'd have other Pokemon to take care of the water/grounds. I can think of many Pokemon who actually enjoy setting up on them, actually. Shedinja comes to mind provided that the water/ground isn't running Toxic. If it is, Meganium will probably fare better. Vileplume, Mantine, and Grumpig would also do nicely.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:22 am

Sasami wrote:
Prostiboots wrote:like Gastrodon, and Quagsire, both of whom are NU legal, and threats in this tier. They could set up rocks, rain dance, or just kill you when you try to Roar, removing a piece of your defensive core.

Gastrodon and Quagsire don't get Stealth Rock, you're thinking of Swampert. I also haven't seen a Rain Dance team in ages--they aren't exactly common in NU. They're stopped too easily it would seem and plus we lost Gorebyss.

If his set does indeed survive weaker EQs, they probably won't be able to "kill" Luxray.

I don't know, two Pokemon walling out his set isn't THAT awful IMO. If he runs Toxic (which I see is an option) then he's going to be crippling them, anyways. All (I can say "all" 'cause I have the stats) Quagsire and Gastrodon used in NU are bulky and not offensively-based. They won't enjoy being poisoned, nor will they be able to "kill" a bulky Luxray.

I do agree that the set needs more work (which I assume Shine plans to do) and some damage calcs will be useful. But you're making out Gastrodon and Quagsire to be much bigger threats than they are. There's a reason that Pokemon is played with teams rather than a single Pokemon--I'm sure he'd have other Pokemon to take care of the water/grounds. I can think of many Pokemon who actually enjoy setting up on them, actually. Shedinja comes to mind provided that the water/ground isn't running Toxic. If it is, Meganium will probably fare better. Vileplume, Mantine, and Grumpig would also do nicely.
I was giving a quick example off of the top of my head, basically any poison type with a defence stat stops it, Arbok being at the top of that list for being able to disrupt the rest of the team, as well.

On a side note, I've come to consider the usage stats irrelevant, and I will until a lot more people are playing.

It doesn't... need work... I think I'd rather see calcs on presented sets, and why they're a good option over other,establish sets (assuming they're around,) that would be refreshing.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:00 pm

Arbok? Who uses that? It's not a very good Pokemon IMO.

Anyways, ANY set will have counters. Even Pinsir has counters but he certainly isn't a bad Pokemon (if anything, he's the best Pokemon!).

"On a side note, I've come to consider the usage stats irrelevant, and I will until a lot more people are playing."

Gee, I never thought of it that way. I thought hundreds of people were playing. In fact, I thought you were actually involved in the project you so desperately wanted to me to move from Shuten because of your own personal issues./sarcasm

Listen, I don't care that you're criticizing Shine's set. What annoys me is the fact that you're making statements and not backing them up with any experience. You don't play NU and I'm pretty sure you haven't in months. Shine, myself, and occasionally Ryu are the only ones playing. And the last time I asked you about NU, you gave me some weird excuse about speed tiers.

By the way, the usage stats weren't "irrelevant" until people like you stopped playing. The usage stats used to be made up of data from 60-80 team uses a month (no, I'm not making that up). Now there are less than 10 teams used a month, not enough for me to even release stats of any kind. I wouldn't post "irrelevant" stats as they'd be a waste of time for me to calculate...

/endrant
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Prostiboots on Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:10 pm

Did I need to specify that I meant until a few hundred unique teams were being made a month, because I thought it was obvious.

If you're going to accuse "NU experience," that goes straight down the tubes with the usage stats, because one person can, and will shake things up.

;D
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:00 pm

Playing NU DOES make people like Shine and I more experienced. Guess who tends to win most matches when other people play? Shine and I. You know why? Because we've used the most Pokemon, tried the most strategies, and gotten a feel for the metagame. You haven't.

It would be like me giving advice on building an UU team for the current UU tier. Sure, I've read up on it, know the tier list, and have played a few matches--but I'm not experienced enough to really understand the inner workings and know how well a strategy will do.

One person can "shake things up" in ANY tier so that argument was largely irrelevant. ObiStall, Yache Chomp, Tickle Wobb, etc. should prove that.

I love how you don't have time to play but have time to argue, btw. I don't care if you play NU but don't give advice on a tier you're inexperienced with and expect people to agree with you.

If you really feel you understand a metagame without playing it, verse me in Little Cup and see how far you get.

(Off topic: Oh, and I'm finally playing FFIV again :p)
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Shine on Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:04 am

All right, so, to get back on the real topic at hand, here's a Rapidash anti-lead that works! Might be too nichey, though.


Purugly @Power Herb
-Fake Out
-Dig
-Taunt/Sucker Punch
-U-Turn
Thick Fat, Jolly
252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP

Okay, this actually works. I had to find something faster than Rapidash that could pack a super effective attack. After realizing that there was nothing faster that could learn EQ, Stone Edge, Waterfall, Surf, etc without having to take a turn to Rain Dance or something like that (not considering Scarf), I turned to, well... Dig. I started checking the power of faster Pokemon with Dig, and nothing could OHKO. So I checked Sneasel, Persian and Purugly with Fake Out + Dig power, and Purugly's the only one that can 2HKO between Fake Out and Dig 100% of the time. As a bonus, Thick Fat should reduce Flare Blitz power enough to keep Purugly alive. Taunt can shut down other leads, and U-Turn saves it from slower threats, usually. Sucker Punch IS an option, because it's a good priority attack, but I think Taunt is a better choice overall.
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Re: Featured NU

Post by Sasami on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:47 pm

Interesting set. My only worry would be that it doesn't seem incredibly useful later in the match besides using Fake Out to pick off Pokemon with not much help left.

I'm not sure why Thick Fat matters against Rapidash since it shouldn't get a chance to attack but that is indeed a neat bonus. Thick Fat will also help against lead Snover (although I can't see anyone wanting to run that with Rapidash around, rofl).

Does Purugly need all of that speed? You obviously want enough to outspeed Rapidash but I'm wondering if some of those speed EVs would be better placed in HP or something.
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